The Searcher

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  15

  What the Org Teaches #4 There Are Two Ways to Get Sins Wiped Out

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  #4 there are two ways to get sins wiped outthe following five scriptures lay the foundation stone of christianity, namely, that christ died for people's sins.

  virtually every christian denomination on earth accepts these bible statements without question: .

  (matthew 26:28) "....this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

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  The Searcher

  Hi VH7 - if you click on The Searcher at the top of the page, you'll see my previous posts started.
  
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  15

  What the Org Teaches #4 There Are Two Ways to Get Sins Wiped Out

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  #4 there are two ways to get sins wiped outthe following five scriptures lay the foundation stone of christianity, namely, that christ died for people's sins.

  virtually every christian denomination on earth accepts these bible statements without question: .

  (matthew 26:28) "....this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

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  The Searcher

  #4 There Are Two Ways to Get Sins Wiped Out

  The following five scriptures lay the foundation stone of Christianity, namely, that Christ died for people's sins. Virtually every Christian denomination on earth accepts these Bible statements without question:

  (Matthew 26:28) "....this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins."

  (John 1:29) "See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!"

  (Acts 5:31) "God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins."

  (1 John 2:2) "And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."

  (Revelation 1:5) "To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood."

  However, the WTBTS/Jehovah's Witnesses invalidate these scriptures by their false doctrine that a person's own death wipes out their past sins. They do this by interpreting the word "died" at Romans 6:7 as being literal rather than figurative. This is what their dogma says:

  Watchtower May 15th 1982, pp. 8,9; "The Bible explains that at death a person is set free or released from any sins he committed. It says: "He who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7)

  bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day - "According to the apostle John’s vision, "scrolls were opened," and "the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds." (Revelation 20:12) Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: "The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak."

  Is Romans 6:7 to be taken literally or figuratively? Are there two ways to wipe out sins, or just one? The w09 11/1 p. 21 says this - "When it comes to studying words found in the Bible, you also need to know the context in which the word appears."

  By reading the surrounding verses - 2,4,6,8, & 11 - as well as the following scriptures - the true context and meaning of "died" is clearly proven to be figurative. Paul was counseling the Roman Christians in chapters 6, 7, & 8 about "dying" to their former, willful and sinful lives.

  (Romans 7:4,9,10) "So, my brothers, YOU also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ; In fact, I was once alive apart from law; but when the commandment arrived, sin came to life again, but I died. And the commandment which was to life, this I found to be to death."

  (Romans 8:10) "But if Christ is in union with YOU, the body indeed is dead on account of sin..."

  (Ephesians 2:1) "Furthermore, [it is] YOU [God made alive] though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and sins,"

  (Galatians 2:19) "As for me, through law I died toward law, that I might become alive toward God..."

  (Colossians 2:13) "Furthermore, though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of YOUR flesh, [God] made YOU alive together with him..　.　." (Colossians 3:3) "For YOU died, and YOUR life has been hidden with the Christ in union with God." (2 Timothy 2:11) "Certainly if we died together, we shall also live together;" (Revelation 3:1) "‘I know your deeds, that you have the name that you are alive, but you are dead."

  For anyone who is studying with J.W.'s, ask your study conductor these two questions:

  "Why did Jesus have to die if a person's own death wipes out their sins?"
  

  "Does this teaching not mean that a mass murderer who is killed by police, automatically receives forgiveness for his evil acts because he's been shot dead?"
  
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  What the Org Teaches #3 Foreigners Were Not Participants of the Mosaic Covenant...........

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .......................they were only beneficiaries of it!!!!

  the org uses this spurious statement to "prove" their false doctrine that only an elite group are invited to be participants in the new covenant.

  #3 "foreigners".

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  The Searcher

  .......................they were only beneficiaries of it!!!!

  The Org uses this spurious statement to "prove" their false doctrine that only an elite group are invited to be participants in the New Covenant.

  #3 "FOREIGNERS"

  What the Org says:

  w98 2/1 p. 11 par. 13 Jehovah Is a God of Covenants - "What was the standing of such proselytes? When Jehovah made his covenant, it was only with Israel; those of the "vast mixed company," although present, were not named as participants."

  jr chap. 14 p. 169 par. 4 You Can Benefit From the New Covenant

  "What of those who are not [directly] in the new covenant, the "other sheep," who hope to live forever on earth? In a sense, they are like the alien residents in Israel, who accepted and benefited from the Mosaic Law.

  w83 3/15 p. 8 Who Should Partake? "But it is noteworthy that there was a vast mixed company of non-Israelites who escaped from Egypt along with the Israelites. And although they enjoyed benefits as a result of this covenant, they were not included in it. There is a similar situation with the new covenant. Only Christians referred to as "the Israel of God" are taken into this covenant with Jehovah God. However, there is a "great crowd" of other Christians, referred to by Jesus as his "other sheep." Although these enjoy benefits from the new covenant, they are not included in it."

  But What Does the Bible Really Teach?

  (Deuteronomy 29:10-15) "All of you are stationed today before Jehovah your God, the heads of your tribes, your elders, your officers, every man of Israel, your children, your wives, and your foreign resident who is in the midst of your camp, from the one gathering your wood to the one drawing your water. You are here in order to enter into the covenant of Jehovah your God and his oath, which Jehovah your God is making with you today in order that he may establish you today as his people and that he may be your God, just as he has promised you and just as he swore to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. "Now it is not with you alone that I am making this covenant and this oath, but it is with those standing here with us today before Jehovah our God and with those who are not here with us today."

  These verses comprehensively expose the Org's anti-scriptural stance, however, to reinforce what Moses wrote, both Ruth and Rahab (two non-Israelite pagan worshippers) became full members of the nation of Israel and full participants of the Law Covenant, as well as their respective offspring who all gained inheritances within that nation.

  This is confirmed by the fact that both of them were assimilated into the tribe of Judah and became direct ancestors of Jesus Christ. If both women were not fully Israelites, then Christ's lineage was corrupted by these women.

  As can be seen, the only thing which has been corrupted is the Org's decision on who is allowed to be in the New Covenant.
  

  
  

  
  
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  13

  What The Org Teaches: #2 THE GREAT TRIBULATION

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  every single bible student/jehovah's witness who has ever lived, has been indoctrinated to believe that a catastrophic great tribulation would very soon engulf the entire earth, causing untold death & destruction.

  this spurious teaching is drummed into every j.w.

  's head and used by them as a major recruitment tool.

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  The Searcher

  @ prologos - I agree with your reasoning concerning other "great tribulations."

  What J.W.'s totally dismiss when they accept the Org's (future) explanation of Jesus' words at Matthew 24, is that Jesus was referring to the worst tribulation ever to hit his audience's nation (God's people) up until that time - and that it would never occur again.

  If he was simply referring to catastrophic events in general, his listeners (and JW.'s!) should have included the flood of Noah's day, which was scripturally the worst event ever.
  
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  13

  What The Org Teaches: #2 THE GREAT TRIBULATION

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  every single bible student/jehovah's witness who has ever lived, has been indoctrinated to believe that a catastrophic great tribulation would very soon engulf the entire earth, causing untold death & destruction.

  this spurious teaching is drummed into every j.w.

  's head and used by them as a major recruitment tool.

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  The Searcher

  @ introvert2 - Yes, numerous denominations believe the end is coming "soon", but the Org combines scriptures which have no connection, in order to appear as if they have the true interpretation of something which many people desire to know.
  
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  13

  What The Org Teaches: #2 THE GREAT TRIBULATION

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  every single bible student/jehovah's witness who has ever lived, has been indoctrinated to believe that a catastrophic great tribulation would very soon engulf the entire earth, causing untold death & destruction.

  this spurious teaching is drummed into every j.w.

  's head and used by them as a major recruitment tool.

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  The Searcher

  @ goneawol - thanks, nice to be back. Had to deal with one of life's problems (non-religious one!!) and after 6 months it concluded successfully at the weekend. (no, I wasn't doing 6 months in San Quentin!)

  I sincerely hope that lurkers and people studying with JW's will examine the info on this site and seriously question what they've been told is "Bible truth."
  
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  13

  What The Org Teaches: #2 THE GREAT TRIBULATION

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  every single bible student/jehovah's witness who has ever lived, has been indoctrinated to believe that a catastrophic great tribulation would very soon engulf the entire earth, causing untold death & destruction.

  this spurious teaching is drummed into every j.w.

  's head and used by them as a major recruitment tool.

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  The Searcher

  Every single Bible Student/Jehovah's Witness who has ever lived, has been indoctrinated to believe that a catastrophic great tribulation would very soon engulf the entire earth, causing untold death & destruction.

  This spurious teaching is drummed into every J.W.'s head and used by them as a major recruitment tool.
  

  #2 THE GREAT TRIBULATION

  What the Org says:

  w95 2/15 p. 14 par. 6 - "While Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 C.E. did indeed bring "great tribulation" on that religious city, the major fulfillment of Jesus’ words is yet to be realized."

  it-2 p. 1127 Tribulation - "However, since the prophecy at Matthew 24:4-22 clearly has a dual fulfillment.......might the "tribulation" referred to at Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24 be the "tribulation" during the second and final fulfillment of what was foretold at Matthew 24:21? Viewed in the light of the Bible as a whole, this seems most likely. Do the terms used in the Greek text allow for such a view? Definitely."

  The Org insists that the great tribulation which Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:21- "for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again" - is the same one spoken of at Revelation 7:14 - "These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood".

  But What Does the Bible Really Teach?

  The NWT/RNWT deceptively cross-references Revelation 7:14 with Matthew 24:21 and Mark 13:19 in order to "prove" their false teaching that a cataclysmic tribulation is soon going to hit the earth. The deception is based on the fact that the phrase "great tribulation" appears in each of those verses. However, the "great tribulation" which is recorded at Acts 7:11 is not cross-referenced with the other verses. Why not? Because it is patently clear that it is speaking of a very different great tribulation.

  Likewise, the great tribulation spoken of at Revelation 7:14 cannot possibly be the same one Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:21 - for two blindingly obvious reasons:

  a) The great tribulation which is spoken of at Revelation 7:14 is contextually a clear reference to the same great tribulation mentioned five chapters previously at Revelation 2:22 - a tribulation which Christ himself would instigate against those who were corrupting the congregations, and one which the Org apparently avoids discussing. The angel was describing a future tribulation. He was not discussing one which had occurred almost 30 years previously between 66 - 70 CE.

  b) Regarding the Matthew 24:21 great tribulation, Jesus said "....no, nor will occur again".

  How can something which was never to be repeated, have a "greater fulfillment" in the future?

  Repetitition for emphasis: it was never to be repeated!!!!!!
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  6

  What The Org Teaches: #1 DEALING WITH SINNERS

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to help those who are fading and those who visit this site anonymously - due to org-induced paranoia regarding "evil apostates" - i'd like to offer some examples of doctrinal teachings for them to examine closely.. hopefully it will provide a bit of comfort for some, to see that their doubts are fully justified.. i'll post a few - one each day - to demonstrate that "the truth" of the org is not what j.w.

  one or two previous topics will be repeated for the benefit of new friends to the site.. what the org says: .

  if a sinner is found to have committed a serious sin, they should be confronted by a witness who has first-hand knowledge of the offender's sin.

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  The Searcher

  To help those who are fading and those who visit this site anonymously - due to Org-induced paranoia regarding "evil apostates" - I'd like to offer some examples of doctrinal teachings for them to examine closely.

  Hopefully it will provide a bit of comfort for some, to see that their doubts are fully justified.

  I'll post a few - one each day - to demonstrate that "the truth" of the Org is not what J.W.'s think it is. One or two previous topics will be repeated for the benefit of new friends to the site.
  

  What the Org says:

  If a sinner is found to have committed a serious sin, they should be confronted by a witness who has first-hand knowledge of the offender's sin.

  If the sinner expresses regret, the witness should tell the sinner to report himself to the elders,* in order for a judicial committee of three elders to be formed to hear all of the evidence. They will then hand down a judgment on the sinner, a private reproof, public reproof, or disfellowshipping.

  If the sinner is unrepentant, the witness should leave and then return later with 2 or 3 witnesses - people who can witness the accusation being made, and not necessarily having witnessed the sin.

  If the sinner accepts the witnesses' "counsel", he will report himself to the elders, after which a judicial committee of three elders will be formed to hear all of the evidence in order to hand down a judgment on the sinner - private reproof, public reproof, or disfellowshipping.

  If the sinner remains unrepentant, they should report everything to the elders who will set up a judicial committee in order to disfellowship the sinner for his behaviour.

  *Certain"serious sins" such as fraud or slander are somehow exempt from this procedure and can be dealt with privately without squealing on the sinner to the elders - according to the self-proclaimed and self-appointed "faithful and discreet slave".

  Watchtower May 2016, page 6, par.14 says this - "Most (a) differences between Christians can and should be resolved privately by the individuals concerned. However, Jesus noted that some situations (b) might require congregation (c) involvement. (Read Matthew 18:15-17.) (Yes - read it very carefully!) What would be the outcome if an offender refused to listen to his brother, to witnesses, and to the congregation? He should be treated "just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Today, we would say that he should be disfellowshipped. The seriousness of this step indicates that the "sin" was not a small disagreement. Rather, it was (1) a sin that could be settled between the individuals concerned but it was also (2) a sin serious enough to merit disfellowshipping (d) if not settled. Such sins might involve a measure of fraud or might include damaging a person’s reputation through slander. The three steps Jesus outlined here are applicable only where these conditions exist. The offense did not include such a sin as adultery, homosexuality, apostasy, idolatry, (e) or some other gross sin definitely requiring the attention of the congregation elders." (f)

  (a) Jesus was referring to all sins, not specific differences!

  (b) Some? No. Every time a sinner was unrepentant the congregation was involved – and only then!

  (c) Jesus & Paul both stated that the congregation (ecclesia) was to be told, not the elders (presbyterion)

  (d) So a J.W. publisher can privately deal with some sins worthy of disfellowshipping..........

  (e) ….......but not the juicy & salacious ones? (elders' wives would probably be bored gossiping about a "measure of fraud.")

  (f) Jesus never mentioned the elders once in his counsel - nor adultery, nor homosexuality, nor apostasy, nor idolatry!

  No repentant sinner should be reported to anyone - end of story.

  What Does the Bible Really Teach?

  At Matthew 18:15-17 & 1 Timothy 5:20:

  A sinner is confronted by a witness who is personally aware of the offender's sin.

  If the sinner expresses regret of the serious sin to the witness, the matter is ended.

  If the sinner is unrepentant, the witness should leave and return later with at least two other witnesses who are also personally aware of the sin.

  If the sinner now expresses sincere regret and accepts the correction from the witnesses, the matter is ended and no one else is told or involved.

  If the sinner remains unrepentant, then the witnesses must reveal the sinner's behaviour to the whole congregation! This serves as a warning that the practice of such serious sins is not acceptable behaviour for a Christian.

  If no one has observed a person committing the sin, then contrition/forgiveness is between them and their God alone - no one else!

  The Org disparages the Catholic church's one-to-one confessional, yet claims in law courts to have "clergy/penitent privilege" with a gang of three confessors (elders).

  Wouldn't the practice of disfellowshipping & shunning by J.W.'s be totally different if they applied the scriptures truthfully?
  

  　

  　

  
  
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  29

  The Elders want to meet with me and the hubby... Lol lol lol

  by Sevan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so the elders called wanting to meet with me and my husband.

  most likely because i told a concerned jw friend of mine that i really care about that i wasn't coming back and a couple of the issues i had.

  i didn't bring up any so-called "apostate" information, just told her about the australian royal commission and that there are a lot of unscriptural teachings and that the gb apply scriptures that are about jehovah and jesus to themselves, which is idolatry.

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  The Searcher

  Least said, soonest mended!

  Your "friend's" testimony counts for nothing! The elders need two witnesses, and they're relying on you to admit what you said to her.

  So to save giving grief to yourself, your husband & his family, insist on being told what the purpose of the meeting is about.

  When they reveal it's concerning your private conversation with one person, thank them for their concern, but tell them that you would never discuss with anyone, things which may or may not have been said in a confidential conversation! Ask them why they didn't tell Sister Righteous to apply Matthew 5:23,24 & Matthew 18:15.

  If they do not have two witnesses, they are dead in the water - and they know it. All the best.
  
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  53

  Finally posting and I'm FRUSTRATED!!!

  by stephanie61092 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  okay, i'm about to engage in a major word vomit.

  just giving you fair warning as your time may be better spent somewhere else.. so, i'm sitting on my lunch break, bawling my eyes out, and writing on this forum to people i don't know yet probably have a great deal in common with but at the same time, used to scare the daylights out of me.

  for years, i would come across this forum and 'lurk' awhile if you will, or see things on youtube.

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  The Searcher

  Hi Stephanie, your rant and your pain are very understandable to many of us here.

  Take your time and carefully make plans for your own future.

  Best wishes.